Showing posts with label conformation. Show all posts
Showing posts with label conformation. Show all posts

Friday, April 20, 2012

Crooked legs

I actually made it out to see Chev yesterday, and arrived right before my farrier.  He's been working with a 4-year-old filly through the barn owner for some people he's never met, and was there to ride her.

I think it's strange that people will have their horse in training and never come out to see it.  This is a "free" horse--and believe me, no untrained horse is free--that the barn owner is apparently charging the owners $700 a month for training and board.  Farrier told me he's getting $400 to train the horse (a reasonable fee), and in 30 days already has her w/t/c and stopping like a champ.  He's doing a pretty good job with the little filly.  They have signed up for another month of training (which in any other case would be wise).  What I don't get is, full care board is $260.  So what's the other $40 for?  Hmmm.

Anyway.

I can't imagine these poor people know much about horses, because their "free horse" unfortunately looks like this up front:

Oh dear.

The first time the farrier had this horse out for training, tied to a post, I literally did a double take and said, "Tell me her front end doesn't really look like that!"  I thought she must have just been standing funny, but no, she is so pigeon-toed her feet almost point at each other when she's squared up.  This conformity is so bad she already has massive amounts of sidebone forming, her fetlocks are trashed--and she's only 4 years old.

So here's what I don't get.

Besides the obvious fact that this poor sweet animal should never have been created in the first place, since this kind of conformation fault is most certainly hereditary...

Why, oh why, when this filly came in, did no one tell the unsuspecting and largely clueless owners that they had an animal unlikely to stay sound in ANY kind of work for more than a couple of years?

Why did no one mention to them that their $1400 in training could have bought them a nice, well broke, registered horse that can already do everything they hope for?

Oh yes--I know...

Because that way no one makes any money.

I want to make this clear though.  I don't fault the farrier one bit.

He has been contracted out by the barn owner to do the training.  He has neither met, nor spoken with the owners directly, nor have they come to see any of the training sessions, nor does he have any way to contact them--except through the barn owner.

What a mess.

And the poor filly is sweet as can be--of course.  If her legs had been straighter she most certainly would have been worth every dollar of training put into her.

But in my opinion, it is cruel and hastens the breakdown of a horse with this kind of deformity to ride it at all.

In my opinion, she should be made as comfortable as possible with corrective trimming and a nice pasture for as long as she can live without pain.

But as a riding horse, I don't see much of a future here.  It's true she doesn't stumble--yet--but it's only a matter of (short) time before she breaks down completely.

What a shame.

In other news, I rode the beast after more than a week off, and she was good.  Unfortunately when I got her back to the tie rack afterwards her pulling back issue resurfaced.  I decided to just leave her tied for 30 minutes, during which time she had several more episodes.  She'd get to the end of the rope, suck back and pull pull pull, almost sitting down like a dog with her hind legs braced under her, realize she wasn't getting anywhere, and come forward again.  It was actually fairly calm, if you can ever describe a 1,300 pound animal pulling with all its weight on a metal post as "calm".  This time, everything held fast, and after 6 or 7 times, she was done with that, even licked and chewed after she gave into the pressure.  I would feel worse for her (since surely it must hurt to do that)--except all she has to do to avoid the pain is not pull back.  I still think (thanks to the Hancock in her) that it will take another few sessions of this to cure her completely.  But it's a start.

Chevy has more than a few conformation faults of her own, but at least all 4 feet point in the same direction--forward!

 Does this picture make my head look big?


Saturday, March 31, 2012

Conformation crunch

Conformation is one of those things that horse people agonize over, and it's one of the most basic determinations of long term soundness and usability: How the horse is put together.

The problem is, sometimes you have less than perfect conformation on a stellar horse, or seemingly good conformation on an underperformer.

Generally though, good conformation = good horse.

Even a horse with a ton of try will break down without special care and lots of attention when it's in hard work if it has a major fault or two.

Truly serious conformation faults are hardly ever seen in top performing horses.

Here's a comparison of Chev as a 2 year old (I think she was 2 years 2 months), and Sugar (we'll call her), who is 20 months.


I always kind of cringe when I see photos of Chev as a young horse (really, any time before age 4).

She was so awkward looking.

I see, specifically, calf knees (her biggest fault), straight-ish shoulder, and kinda funky looking back legs.  She also had a huge head which you can't see because Keelan is blocking it in this photo.

On the plus side, she has a long neck, relatively short back, and those funky back legs are straight and feature a hugely long gaskin, which gives her a comfortable, sweeping strike in back.  Her hip is a little steep but long.  She tracks up well and straight.  And she has grown up in a pretty nice looking horse.


 Chev at 6 years old

She still has the straight shoulder, although if you look at the length between the point of her shoulder and the point of her elbow, you'll see why she has such a comfortable stride.  Her calf knees straightened a bit but are still a major fault that I think about every ride.  And a lot of the faults that seemed huge when she was a baby turned out to not be such a big deal after all.  It turns out this conformation thing is complicated!

***DISCLAIMER:  the following conformation analysis deals with specifically quarter horses!  Horses are a lot like cars--there's a different style for every need.

I'd like to delve into the nitty-gritty.

A horse is generally considered to be downhill if it's hip (or croup) is higher than it's withers.  Here's a conformation diagram so we're all on the same page with horse terms.


This diagram is supposed to exhibit generalized excellent conformation for the quarter horse.  Both Chev and Sugar are quarter horses, but Chev is of the more modern pleasure type, and Sugar is a reining/cow bred type.

Anyway, see the croup and the withers in the drawing?  Even in this great conformation diagram, most horse people would consider this horse to be "downhill", meaning he's built like he's standing with his rear legs up a hill and his forelegs down in a ditch.

Not so!  I would say.

And do you know why?

Because a horse that actually travels downhill when he moves has a lot more to do with the relationship of the hocks to the knees.

As you can see in the diagram, they are almost level with each other.  This is ideal.

It's also something I really like in Chevy and the little filly.  They both have fairly low set hocks, which allows them to travel in a more sweeping, level way at all the gaits.

I think this horse would feel incredibly downhill to ride.  And it's not just because his bum is about a mile above his withers (which might actually be sort of okay, because based on the length of his tail, he's still a 2 year old)--look at how much higher his hocks are than his knees!  His front cannon bones are nice and short, but unfortunately, his front legs look like they belong to a completely different horse.


Purple line = hip to withers
 Green line = hock to knee

High set hocks are a deal breaker for me.

By contrast, here's an example of a high level reining show horse:




Though she also appears downhill at first glance, her hocks are much lower, almost level with her knees, and her front legs look like they can support her frame without much trouble.  She also looks like she'd be balanced and quick in her turnarounds and maneuvers--and she is.

Here's Chev and Sugar:



Even though a lot of their conformation is very dissimilar, especially overall body type, they both have fairly level toplines and are fairly level from hock to knee, even at 2 years old.  That tells me Sugar is likely to grow up to be fairly balanced, even if she is a little more post legged behind.

This is a pretty good article on Reining-horse specific conformation by Les Vogt, who has really grown on me over the years:  http://lesvogt.wordpress.com/2007/12/21/werent-we-talking-about-prospects/

He mentions something in particular that I was pretty worried about.

I come from the English world, where longish pasterns are coveted.  They help give a springy stride, and, I thought, also help with long term soundness.

Turns out you don't want longish pasterns in a reining horse or a horse that has to do a lot of quick, difficult maneuvers.  I thought Chev had pretty short pasterns, but as you can see, Sugar's are shorter still.

The last thing I want to talk about is shoulder slope.

It's another area of horse conformation that isn't well understood.

Different sloped shoulders are good for different things.  Generally, the more upright the shoulder, the more "torque", and the less "reach".

For example, pulling horses have very upright shoulders:  Clydesdales, Percherons, Draft breeds.

Here's a Clydesdale stallion:


Red line = shoulder slope
Yellow line = humerus length
Angle between lines = ~ 90 degrees

Even though his shoulder is steep (about 55 degrees), which is as expected with his breed standard, the length of his humerus (arm bone) is just about ideal at around 60% of his shoulder length.  The angle is also good between shoulder and humerus at 90 degrees.  This means despite the upright shoulder, he can reach out a bit and get a lot of power out of his strides.  The steep angles also lend themselves to a lot of knee action.*

*Side note:  This is why, interestingly, a lot of draft crosses (particularly when crossed on sloped shoulder breeds like the Thoroughbred) can, ironically, turn out to be good jumpers, because the combination of steep shoulder angle (which gives good knee action and "push") and long humerus (which allows for reach and length of stride) lends itself well to jumping!  Most warmblood breeds that excel in jumping have the straight shoulder/long humerus combination.  If you've seen a horse jump in slow motion, you'll be shocked to see almost all of the push to get over the jump comes from the front end, not the rear.

Let's try Chev, since she has an apparently terrible shoulder angle at first glance:

Shoulder slope = ~50-55 degrees
Shoulder angle = ~90 degrees
Humerus length = ~65%



She has a somewhat steep shoulder slope (between 50-55 degrees) but a long humerus that is very good at 65% length of her shoulder.  This helps to explain some of her sweeping action at the trot, and is the reason she can push out for English classes.  The slightly steeper shoulder is still open enough, with about a 90 degree angle between shoulder slope and humerus.  If the humerus is too long or too short, reach can be limited.  But her humerus is long enough and sloped enough to give her pretty good reach.  She still prefers to jog, though.

Here's Sugar, who's still young and will likely change a bit:

Shoulder slope = 45 degrees
Shoulder angle = 85 degrees
Humerus length = 65%


Because of her mane, it was hard for me to really see the slope of her shoulder, but I know she has a much more sloped shoulder than Chev does.  Her shoulder slope is about 45 degrees, or "laid back".  The angle between her shoulder slope and her humerus is about 85 degrees (adequate), and her humerus length (at 20 months) is about 65% the length of her shoulder.  I think it's likely that her shoulder slope will become a little steeper as she grows, which should give her angles similar to Chev's.

Finally, the professional reining horse:

Shoulder slope = 50 degrees
Shoulder angle = 85 degrees
Humerus length = 80%

Her angles are similar to Sugar's (which isn't surprising, since they're both reining bred): Shoulder slope is about 50 degrees, shoulder angle between shoulder and humerus is about 85 degrees, and the humerus is long at 80% the shoulder's total length.  Historically a long humerus causes the horse to stand more under itself, which is exactly what this horse is doing--but it's also important to consider that photo angles can drastically change the appearance of lengths and angles, and this photo would be much more ideal if the horse was standing more square up front.

Anyway, I'm too tired to know if any of this makes sense anymore--G'nite!

So, I saw the filly today

And I just KNOW my mom is going to kill me when she reads this post.

Don't worry Ma, I didn't buy her.

Here are some of the photos I got today:





These are my first impressions:
- Small!  (I'm used to my 16 hand, 1300# monster)  I'd say she's around 13.1, 13.2 right now as a coming 2 year old
- Very friendly
- Pretty filly

These are the things I like:
- big hip, overall fairly balanced for a coming 2 year old
- pretty face
- decent shoulder
- low set hocks
- appears to be fairly straight through the front legs
- wide chest
- very friendly and curious
- pleasant, large, kind eye
- not over handled, not started
- should mature to around 15 hands, the height I'm looking for
- moves level

Things I don't like as much:
- a little too straight through the back legs, somewhat post legged (like to hear opinions on this as it's not a fault I have much experience with), possibly a little sickle-hocked
- short pasterns
- neck is a little thick (but looks more elegant when she carries her head down, which seems natural for her), hard to tell with thick hair coat
- light color (but of course, a good horse can't be a bad color in my book--so that's less of a problem)
- not a super impressive pedigree, but would probably do okay at lower level reining, etc

I also got a couple (bad, unfortunately) pictures of the stud, who is sweet, sweet sweet.  He obviously has had some super handling and the breeder has had him since he was a yearling.  Not at all nosy or lippy, but is curious and friendly.  I was very impressed with him and never would have known he was a stallion from his behavior.  My SO is 6' in the photos, I think Hollywood Dunit Good is probably right around 14.2.

[As whisper_the_wind had mentioned in my last post, No, he doesn't look as photoshopped (or as post legged) in real life.  Yes, that is his real tail.  And the breeder's daughter is really into graphic design--she for sure did the photo editing on their website.]



So what do y'all think?  First impressions?  Concerns?  Loves?  This is also all posted on the Equine Mind Meld forum if you'd rather comment there!

Tuesday, January 17, 2012

Conformation does not equal confirmation

And it's unlikely to change much with age.

[ADDENDUM, 1/29/12:

Conformation: the shape or proportionate dimensions, esp. of an animal
Confirmation:  the process of supporting a statement by evidence


Thanks, Merriam-Webster!


Example:  She was able to provide absolute confirmation that the horse had terrible conformation.]


I think one of the most overlooked parts of the horse is leg straightness.  Especially through the knee.  The knee is a very important part of the front leg assembly.  It takes a lot of the shock from hard landings after jumping, feinting while chasing cows, and just general trot-canter-gallop wear & tear.

I am seeing an awful lot of calf-kneed horses today.  It's a fault that can cause huge problems.  The stability a calf-kneed horse feels through it's joints is a lot like how a woman feels when she wears a high-heeled shoe backwards.  It puts a lot of strain on the knee joint, and all the major suspensory ligaments and tendons that run down the back of the leg.  Unfortunately, my dear Chevy has this fault.

Here she is as a 2 year old.


See how her leg seems to bend backwards at the knee?  A lot of people don't notice this.  The fault of being "over at the knee" is a lot more noticeable, but fortunately for the over at the knee horse, it's a much less serious fault.

Some horses are lucky enough to grow out of their calf knees--at least a little bit.  Chevy did, but not before she bowed a tendon because of it.  It took 4 months of hand walking rehab to repair.

Here she is at 6 years old, and her knees have straightened out a lot.  I also had a great farrier to help me with this.  But she'd never hold up to high impact sports.

I had a lot of people asking me early on if I would breed her because of her color, temperament, color, trainability, color, "she's so pretty", or whatever--even if she were lucky enough to have papers, those front legs take her out of the breeding ring for good.